Help understanding Law Enforcement's "Saved Objects"

[tastypastry]

Can I get a formal definition of 'saved objects'? Seems like a term that would be perfect for the Glossary of Companion Guide.

The key question is basically does "Saved" mean that the item was run through and 'saved' off to the side? If so, that basically is just saved special and saved very special cards. If we are instead taking a more literal interpretation of 'saved' to mean any item that has a future use, then it expands considerably. An additional tough part is the word "Object" - if it was just "Saved Cards", then that would tell us that things like pawns are clearly out...but we went with object.

Below are a list of items that might fall into the definition of 'saved object', in order of (what I believe) the likelihood that it does:

1) Saved Special Cards

2) Saved Very Special Cards

3) Zodiac Cards and Mysterious Place Cards - (Reasoning: Under Mysterious Place Cards in section 2.18 the information says that on the draw or during play, "then the card is saved and the player draws another card." Saved here is the key word. So I could see it being plausible that these are a saved object)

4) Bunnies (I do not think that this should count as a 'saved object' - Bunnies are 'placed' in the bunny circle, not saved.)

5) Defense Cards / Pawns / Cabbage Small Cards / Water Small Cards / Radish Small Cards / Milk Small Cards (On the one hand these were obtained/purchased to be saved until needed, I do not see a reference to the word 'saved' anywhere in the discussion about these cards in the companion guide)

6) Metals / Dolla

7) Bunny Modifiers 

It's plausible someone is interpreting this as all 7 are potentially 'saved objects'. I personally am leaning towards items number 1 and 2 definitely being true, with 3 perhaps likely. Thoughts?

[piedaddy]

Are you referring to a specific card that references saved objects?

[tastypastry]

Yes, sorry, is in the title but not the subject. Referring to the law Enforcement bunnies.

[piedaddy]

Oh I'm sorry I missed that.

For Law Enforcement bunnies I do wish there was a bit more clarification, too. However we've been playing that the player cannot have ANYTHING stolen or traded without their permission for any reason. Whenever there's no details in the QCC my house rules are always just the extreme version of the card until proven otherwise.

[tastypastry]

I do think that is a reasonable house rule.

I think it's possible I / we are looking at this the wrong way. We shouldn't be focused on what a 'saved object' is, but whether the card indicates that the item is 'traded' or 'stolen'. I think I'm going to expressly address this card and say that the wording of the card has to use the words 'steal', 'trade', or a word that is so nearly identical that it couldn't be interpreted differently. I think that might be a better way to go than trying to define the object itself. Specifically, I think that if the creators wanted to also protect 'gambling', that would have been included in the list of 'traded' or 'stolen', so that's the major line I'm drawing.

Examples of situations where, under my definition, the player would be protected:

Carrot Thief
Bunny's Eleven
Activate the Minilith's 'steal' portion of the card
Bingo Flamingo
Bunnies of the Caribbean
Freaking Boron
Zodiac Cards attempted to be stolen during the Mysterious Place Card Reveal (this was originally in my 'murky', but I think that the companion guide and bunny bits are pretty overtly clear that this is 'stealing')
Kentucky Avenue and Spin to Win (though I will caveat that perhaps just moving it to ANOTHER part of the owner's bunny circle MIGHT be allowed, just not moving it out of his bunny circle?)
Leaping Lizards
Okie Dokie Artichoke
Olympic Winner
Pilfer the Pawn
Pillars of Gulu
Pinch your Place
Steel the One
Tear Me a New One
Top of the World
Two-Kilo Mockingbird
Zodiac Thief
Show me the Bunny
Carrot Trader
Share the wealth ('take' is equivalent to 'steal' as a mental leap I think, but if we are going for a true must have the word 'steal', then this could move out of this category)

Examples of times where the player IS NOT protected
'Controlling' of a card through the yellow ball with a red stripe
Bunny Block Bid
Bankruptcy
Mystery Urn
Poverty Poker
Texas Let Go





Examples of still murky situations under my definition:
Falcon Fracas (Companion guide includes the word 'steal' in the example text, but the card itself doesn't include the word steal)
Joint Custody (since both players own the bunny, does one player's law enforcement protect it?)
Sunny Day's exchange for the white stuff and/or Bunny Exchange (The card expressly says the word 'exchange' - I think exchange is synonymous so I lean towards that the player WOULD be protected)
Red Light District (and similar such cards) (The actual wording is that they are 'purchased'. However in my mind this is a 'forced trade' and therefore should be protected - but the word 'trade' or 'steal' does not appear, and often 'trade' implies that it was consensual)


Thoughts?

[tastypastry]

I received an answer from MahoBear8 on the Killer Bunnies Discord on January 30th 2020. Here is that response to anyone curious:

"Help understanding Law Enforcement's "Saved Objects":
1) Saved Special Cards (YES)

2) Saved Very Special Cards (YES)

3) Zodiac Cards and Mysterious Place Cards (YES)

4) Bunnies (Bunnies are actually included in this, YES)

5) Defense Cards / Pawns / Cabbage Small Cards / Water Small Cards / Radish Small Cards / Milk Small Cards (These are also all included. YES)

6) Metals / Dolla (YES)

7) Bunny Modifiers (YES, even though they are attached to the Bunny, Law Enforcement still protects independently)

The one's you missed:
Carrots
Bunderground Stations (London Booster)

A simple definition of saved objects would be "In Play". Therefore, Top + Bottom Run and Hand are not protected. Area 51 is also not protected (Abducted bunnies aren't considered saved objects)
I very likely missed some off the top of my head, so let me know if you think of any potentially ambiguous one's or any that you think don't fit my definition and I'll see if I can clarify."

I then inquired if, for example, when General Tso wanders into my bunny circle, could he be 'stolen':

"The player who owns General Tso is the player who has currently roamed to, so yes, Law Enforcement can protect him (although the situation where you would want to is less common due to the downside of Tso)"

They then confirmed/rejected some of my conditions that I had laid out:

"Examples of times where the player IS NOT protected
'Controlling' of a card through the yellow ball with a red stripe (CORRECT)
Bunny Block Bid (INCORRECT)
Bankruptcy (INCORRECT)
Mystery Urn (Player with Law Enforcement must decide before roll whether to participate, if he does, he has no control over it at that point)
Poverty Poker (Same as Mystery Urn)
Texas Let Go (Same as Mystery Urn)

Examples of situations where, under my definition, the player would be protected: (All correct)"

I then made one last inquiry:

"I'm thinking that you're stating that these Law Enforcement bunnies are an optional effect that the player can choose whether or not to exercise?
For example if I wanted to allow a bunny exchange or bankruptcy, I'm more than wlecome to?"

"Correct, hence the "without his consent" clause"

"Examples of still murky situations under my definition:

Falcon Fracas (Protects, confusing since one would have to read the Bunny Bits to know this is stealing)

Joint Custody (Doesn't Protect, not actually being stolen)

Sunny Day's exchange for the white stuff and/or Bunny Exchange (Protected, "trading" mechanic)

Red Light District (and similar such cards) (Protected, "trading" mechanic)"

Finally, as an added note, they wrote:

"Bad Karma would not be considered a saved object in the same way Calcite Conundrum nor Trojan Bunny nor Cyber Bunny would be

Those are all run cards that just haven't been "fully resolved"