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Post by Jimbo on Dec 28, 2014 18:02:59 GMT -5
I ran into a scenario during a game a few days ago that had us screaming at each other for twenty minutes. Player 1 had no bunnies at the start of his turn with only one carrot left. As his move he discarded his top run card and drew a new card to his hand. At this point he said that he was going to discard Return to Sender from his hand and draw a replacement card because it is a very special and can be played at anytime. He did this to try and draw a bunny so that he wouldn't be blocked from a chance at winning the game once the last card was taken. Do you guys think that this is legal?
Player 2 (myself) and player 3 said that this was illegal since he wasn't playing the card just discarding it. The rules state that very specials can be played at anytime even on someone else's turn, but doesn't mention discarding very specials. If this was a legal move than you could just discard all of the very specials in your hand that are very niche and unlikely to be used at anytime to possibly get better cards. I feel that dealing with useless cards is just part of the game and you can always save a very special so you don't have to look at it in your hand if you don't want to.
I decided that it would be okay to discard a single special or very special card from your hand but it would have to count as your turn (though I'm not sure why you'd want to when you could just save it.)
This seems like kind of a grey area so I'm really interested in what you guys think should be allowed.
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Post by TheDavii on Dec 28, 2014 23:09:59 GMT -5
I ran into a scenario during a game a few days ago that had us screaming at each other for twenty minutes. Player 1 had no bunnies at the start of his turn with only one carrot left. As his move he discarded his top run card and drew a new card to his hand. At this point he said that he was going to discard Return to Sender from his hand and draw a replacement card because it is a very special and can be played at anytime. He did this to try and draw a bunny so that he wouldn't be blocked from a chance at winning the game once the last card was taken. Do you guys think that this is legal? Player 2 (myself) and player 3 said that this was illegal since he wasn't playing the card just discarding it. The rules state that very specials can be played at anytime even on someone else's turn, but doesn't mention discarding very specials. If this was a legal move than you could just discard all of the very specials in your hand that are very niche and unlikely to be used at anytime to possibly get better cards. I feel that dealing with useless cards is just part of the game and you can always save a very special so you don't have to look at it in your hand if you don't want to. I decided that it would be okay to discard a single special or very special card from your hand but it would have to count as your turn (though I'm not sure why you'd want to when you could just save it.) This seems like kind of a grey area so I'm really interested in what you guys think should be allowed. Between these two rules: It seems apparent that three things relevant to your situation are true: (1) Discarding SPECIAL cards directly from your hand is allowed. (2) VERY SPECIAL cards' rules are the same as SPECIAL (so #1 applies to VERY SPECIAL too). (3) VERY SPECIAL cards may also be played/discarded during any player's turn. Therefore, I agree with your friend, Player 1, that the discard VERY SPECIAL directly from hand was legal. In this case, it probably would have been futile anyway, because a single Carrot wouldn't last the two rounds necessary for him to Run the Bunny through. |
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Post by Jimbo on Dec 28, 2014 23:57:42 GMT -5
In the game we played it wouldn't have mattered because we checked the top draw card and it wasn't a bunny and the last carrot was drawn before player 1 had another turn.
But back to the legality discussion my only counter argument would be between these to rules:
1. SPECIAL cards may be discarded directly from your hand as a turn.
2. All of the rules for SPECIAL cards are the same for VERY SPECIAL cards with one difference. The difference between a SPECIAL card and a VERY SPECIAL card is that a SPECIAL card may only be played during a player’s turn whereas a VERY SPECIAL card may be played during any player’s turn.
Playing a saved VERY SPECIAL card does not count as a player’s turn. Playing a VERY SPECIAL card directly from your hand does not count as a player’s turn either.
The key word that I focused on was "play" vice "discard." The only time discarding is mentioned in this game is when it counts as your turn (either from your top run card or your hand via a special card). When talking about very special cards the rules only say "playing" the card doesn't count as a turn. I think that this is intensional because the rules don't seem to use play and discard interchangeably anywhere else. In our game player 1 was not playing Return to Sender since there was no viable target.
I know that this is getting really nitty gritty but I'm curious what you guys think.
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Post by TheDavii on Dec 29, 2014 18:47:55 GMT -5
In the game we played it wouldn't have mattered because we checked the top draw card and it wasn't a bunny and the last carrot was drawn before player 1 had another turn. But back to the legality discussion my only counter argument would be between these to rules: 1. SPECIAL cards may be discarded directly from your hand as a turn. 2. All of the rules for SPECIAL cards are the same for VERY SPECIAL cards with one difference. The difference between a SPECIAL card and a VERY SPECIAL card is that a SPECIAL card may only be played during a player’s turn whereas a VERY SPECIAL card may be played during any player’s turn. Playing a saved VERY SPECIAL card does not count as a player’s turn. Playing a VERY SPECIAL card directly from your hand does not count as a player’s turn either. The key word that I focused on was "play" vice "discard." The only time discarding is mentioned in this game is when it counts as your turn (either from your top run card or your hand via a special card). When talking about very special cards the rules only say "playing" the card doesn't count as a turn. I think that this is intensional because the rules don't seem to use play and discard interchangeably anywhere else. In our game player 1 was not playing Return to Sender since there was no viable target. I know that this is getting really nitty gritty but I'm curious what you guys think. My counter-counter argument is that "discard" is one possible action of "play a turn." It is #2 in this list of Killer Bunnies game mechanicsDuring a turn, each player may play a single card in one of four ways. The four options are:
1) Flip and play the TOP RUN card.
2) Flip and discard the TOP RUN card if you cannot, or do not wish to use it.
3) Flip and save the TOP RUN card, but only if it is a SPECIAL or VERY SPECIAL card.
4) Play a SPECIAL card directly from your five-card hand. This leaves the TOP and BOTTOM RUN cards in place. Additionally, the following paragraph implies that part of the "play" of a card includes negotiation, the outcome of which implies that a card could be discarded without play. "Don’t be so bent on destruction. A little negotiating may yield a profit for both sides. For example, let’s say that you have the Maggots card and you are ready to play it on your opponent. You probably feel good because he has a total of 14 Cabbage Units and you have none. Perhaps he has been ruthless to you the entire game and you can’t wait to get even. Instead of eliminating all of his Cabbage Units, why not ask for half. He may be willing to give you up to 7 Cabbage Units to save his other 7 Cabbage Units. Let’s face it: you’ll end up with 7 Cabbage Units of your own rather than nothing! You can attract more bees with sweet talk than with sour threats." Last weekend, I negotiated with my wife for 1/2 of her Carrots to avoid the Nuclear Warhead. (She refused. Her bunnies were all destroyed. She still won the game with 11 of 20 Carrots.) If you still disagree (and nobody else chimes in), you're always free to contact JB for an official clarification. |
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Post by panther1021 on Jan 5, 2015 12:26:13 GMT -5
I wanted to chime in and give an opinion but kept changing my mind. So the debate I guess is now up to "when is your turn done?" So when player 1 discarded his top run was that it, should his turn have ended? Should he maybe have done his steps in reverse. I.E. discard his VERY SPECIAL, draw, then discard his TOP RUN, draw again?
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