Terrible Misfortune Question!

[peaverok]

There is a terrible misfortune with a yellow ball on it.

If the player that controls the yellow ball draws this card and they own a bunny, can they redirect the terrible misfortune to another player?

If a player that does not control the yellow ball draws this terrible misfortune and has a bunny, then how is it controlled by the player with the yellow ball? Can the player with the yellow ball redirect it to another player even though the original player has a bunny?

[zerodemon]

I think in this instance, the terrible misfortune would kill the player that had drawn the cards bunny first and foremost. IF that player doesn't have a bunny THEN he must choose another player to be the recipient of the card. At this point, the player with the yellow ball may take control. This is the way we've played it anyway.

[joeyskywalker]

Isn't it any card with the yellow ball is controlled by the player with the mysterious place card? So if I play a card with a yellow ball in it the player with control can move it wherever he wants correct?

A terrible misfortune card is a play immediately card. So you don't get to choose whether or not to play it. It is automatically played instantly.

So since the player that controls the yellow ball can move any yellow ball card that is played the card could be moved.

[waitreally]

From the Onyx Bunny Bits:

The player who has control of the Yellow Ball may control the destiny of any card played by any opponent that has a Yellow Ball in the picture. The opponent must play the card first, then the player may redirect it to any other player or the discard.

In this instance, I'd say that the player in with the Yellow Ball may choose to move that Play Immediately card to another player regardless of whether or not the person playing it has a bunny. Also, I'd say that the Yellow Ball owner can also choose to discard it.

[TheDavii]

Nov 30, 2010 15:25:00 GMT -5 waitreally said:

From the Onyx Bunny Bits:

The player who has control of the Yellow Ball may control the destiny of any card played by any opponent that has a Yellow Ball in the picture. The opponent must play the card first, then the player may redirect it to any other player or the discard.

In this instance, I'd say that the player in with the Yellow Ball may choose to move that Play Immediately card to another player regardless of whether or not the person playing it has a bunny. Also, I'd say that the Yellow Ball owner can also choose to discard it.

I disagree with that interpretation. My understanding is the the person with the Yellow Ball with a Red Stripe "controls" it the same way another player would--that they have to follow the rules. Where the rules do not allow discretion (choices), then there is no difference.

In your example, if the player drawing a TM has a bunny, the person with the Yellow Ball with the Red Stripe gets to choose which of the player's bunnies gets snuffed. He can't, for example, choose to snuff another player's bunny, or choose to snuff a HH bunny (which is impossible) because the rules for the TM require the player to kill one of his bunnies. If he doesn't have any, then another bunny must die (unless there are no eligible bunnies in The Bunny Circle).

[waitreally]

I've reversed my opinion completely! That makes a lot of sense.

[joeyskywalker]

Dec 1, 2010 15:02:30 GMT -5 TheDavii said:

Nov 30, 2010 15:25:00 GMT -5 waitreally said:

From the Onyx Bunny Bits:

In this instance, I'd say that the player in with the Yellow Ball may choose to move that Play Immediately card to another player regardless of whether or not the person playing it has a bunny. Also, I'd say that the Yellow Ball owner can also choose to discard it.

I disagree with that interpretation. My understanding is the the person with the Yellow Ball with a Red Stripe "controls" it the same way another player would--that they have to follow the rules. Where the rules do not allow discretion (choices), then there is no difference.

In your example, if the player drawing a TM has a bunny, the person with the Yellow Ball with the Red Stripe gets to choose which of the player's bunnies gets snuffed. He can't, for example, choose to snuff another player's bunny, or choose to snuff a HH bunny (which is impossible) because the rules for the TM require the player to kill one of his bunnies. If he doesn't have any, then another bunny must die (unless there are no eligible bunnies in The Bunny Circle).

I respectfully disagree. The rules say:

The player who has control of the Yellow Ball may control the destiny of any card played by any opponent that has a Yellow Ball in the picture. The opponent must play the card first, then the player may redirect it to any other player or the discard.

It specificaly says that the player can control the destiny of any card. It makes no exception for the TM card. Destiny is a strong word and implies that the player may do whatever he wishes with the card. It specifically says that the card may be redirected to any player. That is one of the powers the ball gives you. Any card can be directed to any player and there is no exception for the TM.

[TheDavii]

Dec 2, 2010 13:59:13 GMT -5 joeyskywalker said:

I respectfully disagree. The rules say:

The player who has control of the Yellow Ball may control the destiny of any card played by any opponent that has a Yellow Ball in the picture. The opponent must play the card first, then the player may redirect it to any other player or the discard.

It specificaly says that the player can control the destiny of any card. It makes no exception for the TM card. Destiny is a strong word and implies that the player may do whatever he wishes with the card. It specifically says that the card may be redirected to any player. That is one of the powers the ball gives you. Any card can be directed to any player and there is no exception for the TM.

In this post from 2007 Nathan454 quotes Killer Bunnies creator Jeff Bellinger in this conversation:

1. If someone has control of the yellow ball, can they move a TM into the discard pile if it has a yellow ball on it?

>No, that would break a rule. But they may decide who gets it.

So, the person with the Yellow Ball must follow the rules.

While I understand your literal interpretation, your interpretation of the rules does not take the hyperbole used in writing the rules into account. Additionally, there is a limited amount of space on a card or in the rules to explain every nuance. That is why we at the Magic Carrot Message Board have developed and maintain the Quest Card Companion. I will add this to the QCC for the next revision.

Previously on the Magic Carrot Message Board, we have agreed on this order of precedence for resolving rule disputes (high precedence to low):

1. Jeff Bellinger (most recent, that is more recent responses, or his last response, take precedence over earlier responses)
2. Jeff Bellinger (older response)
3. Quest Card Companion (which should incorporate rulings from #1, consensus from #4, Bunny Bits #5, and #6)
4. Consensus in the Magic Carrot Message Board (which should go into the QCC, unless contradicted by #1 above).
5. Bunny Bits (often a more complete explanation of #6)
6. Card Rule (starting point for the QCC).

Another way of looking at it is to start with #6 and work your way to lower, more authoritative numbers to resolve the ambiguities that are present. (Some might disagree on my placement of QCC as #3, but as we arrive at consensus, the ruling should go into the QCC, unless overruled by JB).

With other people, we've had discussions on the word "holding" (which is not used literally, it is meant figuratively, so when someone is "holding" a pawn, it means possession/ownership, not your fingers touching it), the word "launched" (it is shorthand for something akin to "sent in the direction of"), and "any bunny" (which doesn't take into account the Heavenly Halo being placed onto a bunny, excluding it from many, many actions and effects).

[Nathan454]

To add more confusion:

killerbunnies.com/?p=1335

Look at the question from Jim.

[TheDavii]

Dec 4, 2010 10:23:22 GMT -5 Nathan454 said:

To add more confusion:

killerbunnies.com/?p=1335

Look at the question from Jim.

Yes, that certainly muddies the waters. It doesn't help my case, either, but it doesn't necessarily hurt it.

What is your opinion on the issue, Nathan?

[Nathan454]

I tend to agree more with JB in that you should not be able to discard TM's, even if they have a yellow ball on them. The question that I have is what if the player who has control of the ball draws a TM with a ball on it. Is that player forced to play it on himself or can he move it to another player?

From the Bits:

" The player who has control of the Yellow Ball may control the destiny of any card played by any opponent that has a Yellow Ball in the picture. The opponent must play the card first, then the player may redirect it to any other player or the discard."

In the above example and going by these rules, I think the player would have to play the TM on himself even though he has control of the yellow ball.

Now, let's say Player 1 has control of the yellow ball and player 2 draws a TM. Player 2 plays the TM on himself. Player 1 can move that TM to another bunny in the circle because player 2 is the opponent.

[a6cavey]

Nathan,

Not to be difficult, but this doesn't make sense to me.

Why would you not be bale to interpret any opponent to mean any player, including the player that has the ball?

Is it possible that the idea of redirecting a card played by the person with the ball wasn't thought of when the rules were made?? Aren't we all opponents in this game???

Further, If there are no exceptions to where I can send the card with ball, unless it contradicts another rule, wouldn't this card be included in that?

Please let me know if I am overstating this interpreation.

[TheDavii]

Dec 14, 2010 18:37:24 GMT -5 a6cavey said:

Why would you not be bale [sic.] to interpret any opponent to mean any player, including the player that has the ball?

In the Killer Bunnies world, "player" generally refers to the person playing the card. "All players" is everybody playing, but "opponents" are those in the "all players" set minus the "player" of the card.

[fifisdead]

I guess I'll throw my $.002...

The card says the ball allows you to redirect or discard any card with the ball image that an opponent plays, but not cards you play. So if you really want to be nice to an opponent you can discard that TM for them, but if you draw it yourself, you're out of luck. If you'll notice the use of the word "any" in the sentence, this is an absolute word, meaning that there is no exception, it negates all other rules...

I think my interpretation goes along with what the new guy (AJ?) says and he is now god of card rules, so what he says goes...

I hope that was worth the money...

[TheDavii]

Dec 15, 2010 9:13:00 GMT -5 fifisdead said:

The card says the ball allows you to redirect or discard any card with the ball image that an opponent plays, but not cards you play. So if you really want to be nice to an opponent you can discard that TM for them, but if you draw it yourself, you're out of luck.

I would agree if JB hadn't said that discarding it would violate a rule, so you couldn't do it.